Continue our class discussion in the comment section:
Does "class" prohibit people from participating in the American Dream?
Nick as narrator: attitude towards other characters?
Discuss the narrative structure. From where in time & space is Nick narrating these events? Where do you sense a shift? (most obvious in Ch. 1).
HW: Chapter 3
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I think that even though it is unequal, the American "class" system encourages the American Dream, although not in a just way. Citizens are judged on their wealth and material goods, so people without these things and without a high social standing strive to climb the social ladder. So, they work hard to eventually live in luxury... or so they think.
ReplyDeleteNick C. is narrating from a lower, middle class point of view. He struggles to incorporate himself into the higher levels of society and at the same time, Nick feels disgusted by the behaviors of these rich people. He seems to slowly but surely increase his participation in the "upper class life". He feels that Jordan Baker is a snob, at least the first time they meet. She is above him and her gossiping and higher level of speech reveal this. In addition, Nick's description of her sitting on the couch and finally going to bed are all describing her as a full fledged upper class snob.
To a certain extent, "class" prevent people from acheiving the American Dream. The idea of a social "class" already divides people into groups depending on their wealth and material possessions already. The American Dream is the idea that everyone will be able to have the same rights. Obviously, there are always going to be poorer people that will not be treated equally or given the same oppurtunites as other rich people. In most scenarios, the rich have more oppurtunites to become successful than the middle to lower class. That is not to say that middle or lower class people cannot acheive the American Dream.
ReplyDeleteNick comes from a rich family from the Mid-West. I would think that the rich people in the East would be a little more wealthy than rich people in the Mid-West because of the location. So when Nick comes over to the East, he sees a new way of living especially when it comes to the richer people like Tom Buchanan and Jordan Baker. Nick has his own opinions about these different characters but he doesn't show it on the outside because he is analyzing them and observing their different way of living.
Because I aruged that class is mainly based on economic status, it can prohibit the achievement of the American Dream. To achieve the American Dream, one needs a good education, educationg that is great than a high school diploma. However, colleges and universities have become quite expensive, making it a challenge for those in the lower class to move up. Those in the high class have more money to spend on education. Therefore, it is easier for them. Although it is not impossible to move up in class, it is highly difficult because of this.
ReplyDeleteNick Carraway, I feel, is narrating from a lower-middle class perspective. His family is not born into wealth. To get his education, he works hard and moves up in the class system. As we discussed in class, West Egg is for people who work to gain their fortunes. Nick is slowing gaining his fortune at his stay in West Egg. As he has friends in East Egg, he is slowly being taken into their society and life styles. As this occurs, he is able to witness events in the lives of his friends and realize how different the life of the upper class is different from the life of the lower-middle class. Nick views Tom with respect because he finds it difficult to believe that someone in his generation can be as filthy rich as Tom. He thinks his second cousin once removed, Daisy, is sometimes offensive towards him. She acts phony and makes hostile/sarcastic comments toward him in Chatper 1. He feels that Gatsby is some distant figure that contains some sort of mystery. At the end of Chapter 1, when Nick first sees Gatsby, I get the sense that Nick feels that Gatsby is a mysterious rich man with a huge reputation, and feels that Gatsby casts a large shadow.
I do not feel as though "class" prohibits people from achieving the American Dream. "Class" simply makes achieving the dream unequal for all people. Those in the upper class may have a headstart to achieve greater things and have more opportunities than those in the lower.
ReplyDeleteNick's point of view is from the lower class and he is observing the upper class. This is shown through the different places and moments he spends with other people. When he spends time with Tom, Nick expresses his arrogance through his narration.
I feel that class makes it difficult to acheivethe American dream, but does not necessarily prohibit it. If a person is born poor, it is harder to pay for an education, or it is more difficult to get one vbecause they have to work multiple jobs. But it is possible for them to achieve the American dream.
ReplyDeleteNick is narrating from the middle class. He is on his way moving up the social ladder thanks to his getting an education and his wgood family in the mid west. NIck doesnt like how the rich people act, but slowly understands how the upper class think.
I do not think that "class" prohibits people from achieving the American Dream. It just makes it harder to move up through the classes depending on where you start off, which, unfortunately, isn't in your hands to decide what life you are born. Classes also seem to encourage people to strive to do better so they can live the good life; which might or might not mean you have a lot of class, depending on what your definition of class is.
ReplyDeleteNick's point of view is that of the lower class getting the chance to observe and sometimes partake in the lives and lifestyles of the upper class. He gets sucked into all of the upper class drama; and he can't seem decide whether he should be revolted or fascinated by it all. Like when Gatsby was taking Nick for a ride in his car to go to lunch and Gatsby was telling his life's story, but Nick thought it was all just a sick joke but then Gatsby goes on to say something about Montenegro that seemed so candid ,which made Nick immediately fascinated again(pg66).
The Great Gatsby is set in the 1920s and it seems as though the defined classes makes it virtually impossible to climb the social ladder. However, like what Anthony said, it has become much harder to attain the American Dream as time progresses. I'm studying for the APUSH final right now--remember the Tweed Ring? Boss Tweed was an Irish immigrant but was able to become a major political force in America. That was in the early 1900s during a huge immigrant influx.
ReplyDeleteSo in conclusion... it's easier for one class to attain the American Dream when there is a majority of them and when they're determined to make the change. They have the power in their hands.
Nick's attitude towards the characters is VERY conflicting: we've discussed this in class, but i'll just say it again-- he's fascinated by the almost alien lives they lead, and at the same time he's also disgusted by the way they live. (the impromptu party with Mrytle)
Nick is the down-to-earth character who hasn't been brainwashed by the desire for riches and glamor. Because he remains true to the real "pleasures" in life, he's able to narrate the story in an unbiased manner. He foreshadows the shift in narration when he catches a glimpse of Gatsby, but it's too vague to draw out a definite picture of him.
"Class" can prohibit people from achieving the American dream because they might not be given the same opportunities as someone seen as being in a higher "class." However, people can overccome thsse obstacles and adversity to reach their dreams. After all, the whole point of the American dream is that anyone can achieve anything they really want.
ReplyDeleteI think Nick is in the middle-upper class - he lives on the West Egg meaning he's "new money" or self-made. He also describes his house as being an "eyesore" next to Gatsby's extravagant mansion. I think he has stayed relatively middle-upper class because he states his family has been "well-to-do," but he also says that Daisy and Tom make him feel "uncivilized." Nick is narrating these events as though they have already happened, both "with and without."
Class can both inhibit and help people achieve the American dream. If a person is upper class, they often have more opportunities, such as getting their kids into a private school because they have the money to spend on it. Lowe class people often cannot afford this so they would go to schools in bad neighborhoods, thus dooming them to the lower class if the education is not good enough.
ReplyDeleteNick is most likely upper middle class since he had money when he was in the west. When he narratres, he seems to go back and put himself in the situation, so it seems as though he is having flashbacks. He is fascinated by the east egg society as seen in Ch 2 when he is enthralled by the conversations at Tom's apartment, yet he doestn like the east egg, as seen in the same scene when he says he wants to leave.
Having "class" may both benefit and prohibit Americans from achieving the American dream. What is the American dream? That dream is a strong belief of "from rags to riches". In short, the American dream is all about class as it portrays poor to money. A fine example of a famous individual who managed to use class to his advantage and achieve the dream was Abraham Lincoln. From living in lumber, to serving in the military, only later to lead that same military into the Civil War. But that's just one individual out of many. Across the span of the United States history, there aren't many individuals/families who were able to make it from dirt poor to millionaires in their lifetime. Today, in society, the poor become poorer and the rich stay rich.
ReplyDeleteNick is definitely different from the others back in his West Egg side. He knows people from the East Egg while all inhabitants of West Egg do not know a single individual, let alone a being, in East Egg. Nick is a curious individual and finds Gatsby and his friend Tom interesting. But as he travels deeper into the curiosity that perks his excitement, Nick feels he does not belong and wants to leave East Egg immediately.
(I still think my yolk analogy best describes where Nick stands in this world of the Egg)
Class does not limit people, but pushes and gives incentive to achieve better than they have. Andrew Carneige was the ideal example, and though his practices were corrupt, he came from a poor home to one of the wwealthiest men in the world.
ReplyDeleteNick views the other characters with admiration and disgust. With Tom he feels a little superior because Tom wants Nick's exceptance. With Daisy, sympathetic, because she is living a lie. To Mrytle, he wants to know her but at a distaance because she is obnoxious. He could love Jordan, but her indifference in off-setting.
This book is a memoir of Nick and the first chapter gives it away when he indroduces the Great Gastby as the person who graced the title. This means its a book, and chapter 3 will expound more on that. I believe he is an author to a book and is writing about the past.